Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
4 (6.1%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
50 (75.8%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
8 (12.1%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (6.1%)

Total Members Voted: 66

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 386653 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Blongb

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 1077
  • I love living in Llandudno.
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #360 on: April 24, 2016, 07:49:44 pm »
The retail units are a very mysterious suggestion and Mr Alan Waldron obviously hasn't done his research very well. You have to go back through the Deeds a very long way but they contain codicils that prevent any retail on the Pavilion site that compete with anything sold on the Pier. The site is also to remain Alcohol free. He doesn't have the right of access through where Mr Adam Williams found the Cabins when he bought the Pier. As to giving retail shops access onto North Parade, that's a non starter as its not Zoned for that use and would be most vigorously fought by the local residents on the traffic congestion problems alone.

He say's the scheme will cost £14 - £15 million to developed. Is he under the misrepresentation that he will qualify for huge Grants of Tax Payers money to fund his development, like he was able to secure for Deganwy Quay?, when after all you and I would be contributing to help build luxury flats for a few very rich people, that we couldn't afford to buy.

Yes I want the site developed, but not at any price, this is a half baked idea, just like all the other schemes that have been proposed in the past, it's pie in the sky and should be treated as such. &shake&
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #361 on: April 24, 2016, 11:57:44 pm »
I'll bet you £15m that this goes ahead in either this, or a very similar form.
This time it has money, political will from all sides and savvy business men to 'oil the wheels' of progress.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -


Online Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8953
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #362 on: April 25, 2016, 08:59:21 am »
Hmmm...it's sad that our country (and most in the West) are run by banks, instead of elected representatives.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #363 on: April 25, 2016, 12:38:42 pm »
I'd bet a few quid that the plans for the Pavilion go through and the development takes place. It's the first realistic redevelopment proposal for the site since the fire and we can't let minor objections get in the way.

Offline Blongb

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 1077
  • I love living in Llandudno.
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #364 on: April 25, 2016, 01:03:23 pm »
It's the first realistic redevelopment proposal for the site since the fire and we can't let minor objections get in the way.

I find nothing realistic in the proposal to put Flats with Shops on the site and I can assure you there would be nothing minor about the objections that would be raised. We have planning laws in this country for a very good reasons.
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline wrex

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2520
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #365 on: April 25, 2016, 05:19:14 pm »
Well it looks like a battle,there is noway any developer will rely on shops to make it pay or a couple of restaurants as we have a couple of large units empty with no interest so without money from residental its a non starter.Not really to bothered but in the modern age it would be kamakazi for any developer to think they could rely on purely retail,sorry.

Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 13096
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #366 on: April 25, 2016, 05:51:40 pm »
I was wondering earlier how many flats it would take to recoup £15m. leaving aside the commercial aspect....a rough estimate of 75 at £200.000 each, would just break even.

As an example the recently developed Cwrt Gloddaeth has 44 mixed 1 and 2 bedroom flats on quite a large site, ranging from £175.000 to £230.000, (not all with parking) again a rough total of £8m.

How many flats can this site take ?

Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #367 on: April 25, 2016, 09:59:30 pm »
I was working on a price per apartment of nearer £500k,  and about 30 of them with 2 underground car parking spaces each.
Hence why he is looking to London for investors, that would be cheap for property to those folks, especially with such an iconic view.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline wrex

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2520
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #368 on: April 26, 2016, 07:03:38 am »
Would there be any room for a shop or a restaurant with that many flats

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #369 on: April 26, 2016, 07:20:30 am »
I think a likely scenario is a 5 storey building, with basement car parking, 2 connected floors of shops/restaurants/leisure at pier level and maybe 2 levels of apartments above. Mr Waldron intends to gain the support of Cadw, Design Council for Wales and CCBC before submitting his plans to ensure it all goes through smoothly.

Offline Blongb

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 1077
  • I love living in Llandudno.
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #370 on: April 26, 2016, 10:43:16 am »
And once he gets the go ahead to put flats on the promenade that drives a coach and horses through the current planning protection laws and a large number of struggling hotels will put in applications to convert into flats as well, and that my friend is the end of Llandudno as we know it.
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline wrex

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2520
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #371 on: April 26, 2016, 05:03:07 pm »
Mr Done bought the station yard for a good price but never got what he wanted so maybe Mr Walldron will have to do the sanme thing.

Offline SteveH

  • Management Board Member & Newsgroup Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 13096
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #372 on: April 26, 2016, 06:07:10 pm »
Mr Done bought the station yard for a good price but never got what he wanted so maybe Mr Walldron will have to do the same thing.
Has he actually bought it,?   maybe he only has an option on it.   

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #373 on: April 27, 2016, 09:57:12 am »
And once he gets the go ahead to put flats on the promenade that drives a coach and horses through the current planning protection laws and a large number of struggling hotels will put in applications to convert into flats as well, and that my friend is the end of Llandudno as we know it.
I don't know if that's true. We're talking about a new build development, not a conversion, and the residential aspect of the scheme could be regarded as a form of 'enabling development' that is necessary to enable the redevelopment to take place.

Anyway, I wouldn't be averse to seeing some of the struggling hotels converted into good quality apartments - they are probably struggling because of lack of investment over the years and are those the sort of hotels we want representing the town? Fewer, but higher quality, hotels is the way forward in my book.

Online Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8953
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #374 on: April 27, 2016, 10:13:55 am »
There are already blocks of flats on the prom. We have friends living in them.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.