Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
4 (6.1%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
50 (75.8%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
8 (12.1%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (6.1%)

Total Members Voted: 66

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 380210 times)

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Offline wrex

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #255 on: March 31, 2016, 04:46:43 pm »
It was the Grand Norm

Offline BertyBasset

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #256 on: April 03, 2016, 01:06:32 am »
Who are Mostyn Estates? http://www.mostynestates.co.uk
Or who are the major shareholders? I assume they are Llandudno based.


Offline OrmeMac

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #257 on: April 03, 2016, 10:42:06 am »
Who are Mostyn Estates? http://www.mostynestates.co.uk
Or who are the major shareholders? I assume they are Llandudno based.

Delve a little deeper into the website and you'll find this which basically explains it all:

Quote
Mostyn Estates Limited is a private limited company which manages the interests of the Mostyn family across North Wales and elsewhere.

The principal areas of activity are its commercial, residential and agricultural holdings within Llandudno, together with its agricultural estates based round Rhewl and Tremostyn, Flintshire.

The Mostyn family connection with Llandudno and Flintshire began over 500 years ago. The majority of the town as we know it today was laid out in 1849 by the Mostyn family, who leased most of the plots for development and influenced the building design and uses of the land. Mostyn Estates has always sought to promote the economic well being of the town and in recent years promoted Mostyn Champneys Retail Park, Parc Llandudno and the town’s Victoria Centre.

The Estate values the unique Victorian heritage whilst wishing to ensure the future prosperity of the town. Properties which are leased by, or bought from, Mostyn Estates are subject to covenants which assist in controlling the use to which the property can be put and maintaining standards such as repairs and alterations.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #258 on: April 03, 2016, 04:33:35 pm »
Who are Mostyn Estates? http://www.mostynestates.co.uk
Or who are the major shareholders? I assume they are Llandudno based.

Delve a little deeper into the website and you'll find this which basically explains it all:

Quote
Mostyn Estates Limited is a private limited company which manages the interests of the Mostyn family across North Wales and elsewhere.



The principal areas of activity are its commercial, residential and agricultural holdings within Llandudno, together with its agricultural estates based round Rhewl and Tremostyn, Flintshire.

The Mostyn family connection with Llandudno and Flintshire began over 500 years ago. The majority of the town as we know it today was laid out in 1849 by the Mostyn family, who leased most of the plots for development and influenced the building design and uses of the land. Mostyn Estates has always sought to promote the economic well being of the town and in recent years promoted Mostyn Champneys Retail Park, Parc Llandudno and the town’s Victoria Centre.

The Estate values the unique Victorian heritage whilst wishing to ensure the future prosperity of the town. Properties which are leased by, or bought from, Mostyn Estates are subject to covenants which assist in controlling the use to which the property can be put and maintaining standards such as repairs and alterations.

The Mostyn Estates website is rather more flattering to them than the actual reality of their deeds

Offline Cambrian

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #259 on: April 03, 2016, 06:11:30 pm »
Full details of Mostyn Estates' directors and shareholders are available on: endole.co.uk
There are also links to their other companies and to the directors' other directorships.

Offline BertyBasset

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #260 on: April 04, 2016, 12:48:32 am »
So not actually Mostyn family, but some ner do well faceless investors then. Shall have a peep at the endole website. Now I'm an old fashioned type of person and assumed the local council owned and controlled stuff.  Mostyn Estates obviously owns stuff. Do they control stuff as well?

Offline Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #261 on: April 04, 2016, 08:04:33 am »
Mostyn Estates by the Enclosure Act of 1843  were  legally allowed to steal land from the people of Llandudno and surrounding areas.  They then sold the land that they had legally stolen, but this land was then only sold as leasehold.
Mostyn Estates then retained the freehold and then had control of the development of any property built on their land.

A good book to read on this is Chris Draper's book "Llandudno before the hotels"    in it he describes the Mostyn Family as being morally and financially bankrupt.     This was before the Enclosure Act came into force and and it was Llandudno that saved the Mostyns rather than the mistaken interpretation that the Mostyns saved Llandudno

Chris Draper and John Lawson Reay have issued a book called "Llandudno through time"   and it shows photos of Llandudno in the past and photos of the same thing now.   There are two classic examples there of what Mostyn Estates are all about.     They are a business and just look after their own interests, no one elses.

Offline Greyhound

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #262 on: April 04, 2016, 09:44:36 am »
I appreciate you're no lover of Mostyn Estates, but if it weren't for them and for their control of the town, I doubt we would be writing on this forum about our lovely town, or whether we would even be living here as - although doubtless some urban development would have taken place - I can't see how it would have taken any different form from that in either Colwyn Bay or Rhyl. It would have been piecemeal and poorly planned and would surely have gone down the same route of inappropriate conversions from hospitality use to multi-occupancy and all the attendant social problems and lack of civic pride we see in other towns along the coast.

To describe a whole family as morally bankrupt is pretty harsh, even quoting another author. Like any family I guess you have some bad apples, but then you have others (like Lady Augusta Mostyn years ago and even the last Lord Mostyn-but-one to bring it more up-to-date) who were widely respected and cared for the town and its residents. 

Offline DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #263 on: April 04, 2016, 12:08:46 pm »
Mostyn Estates have paid for a Mechanical Digger which is clearing the Pier Pavilion Site today, so they can carry out a survey tomorrow which will enable them to check the feasibility of the site for redevelopment, although they don't own the site at the moment.
I assume Mostyn Estates received permission to carry out the work from the Owner, so can we safely assume they are interested in buying the site? Maybe they have an authentic reconstruction of the Pavilion in mind...?

Offline Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #264 on: April 04, 2016, 12:12:08 pm »
You have your opinion and you may well be correct, so I suppose what you are saying is that the end justifies the means.    Legally steal the land, clear the squatters out then you have a blank canvas for the development of a town.

Then sell the land off, keep the freehold and charge ground rent at the same time.   Then if you decide to terminate the lease, then any property on it reverts back to Mostyn Estates.    That's really good business sense.

What I quoted from the author was that the Mostyn's were morally and financially bankrupt and if you have a read of the book you'll see the reason why the statement was made by the author.   

I believe that Mostyn Estates have agreed to fund money for Victorian lamps and shelters on the Promenade to go with the Victorian image of Llandudno but that promise was made some time ago and I've seen nothing happening.    Perhaps I've completely misjudged the company, only time will tell.


Offline Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #265 on: April 04, 2016, 12:28:14 pm »
Mostyn Estates have paid for a Mechanical Digger which is clearing the Pier Pavilion Site today, so they can carry out a survey tomorrow which will enable them to check the feasibility of the site for redevelopment, although they don't own the site at the moment.
I assume Mostyn Estates received permission to carry out the work from the Owner, so can we safely assume they are interested in buying the site? Maybe they have an authentic reconstruction of the Pavilion in mind...?

Dave, come on now, you should know that Mostyn Estates never do anything for nothing.        &shake&
So how come Mostyn Estates have been able to do something on the site when all the powers that the CCBC have couldn't?
Perhaps that stink that everyone could smell wasn't from the Grand after all.

Offline DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #266 on: April 04, 2016, 01:13:27 pm »
Mostyn Estates have paid for a Mechanical Digger which is clearing the Pier Pavilion Site today, so they can carry out a survey tomorrow which will enable them to check the feasibility of the site for redevelopment, although they don't own the site at the moment.
I assume Mostyn Estates received permission to carry out the work from the Owner, so can we safely assume they are interested in buying the site? Maybe they have an authentic reconstruction of the Pavilion in mind...?

Dave, come on now, you should know that Mostyn Estates never do anything for nothing.        &shake&
So how come Mostyn Estates have been able to do something on the site when all the powers that the CCBC have couldn't?
Perhaps that stink that everyone could smell wasn't from the Grand after all.
I'm sure that they have profit in mind when considering any development, but if it means that the Pavilion site if sympathetically redeveloped after all these years of deadlock, then that surely is a good thing?

Offline Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #267 on: April 04, 2016, 02:05:00 pm »
Amen to that!
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #268 on: April 04, 2016, 02:09:06 pm »
Amen to that!

I'll second that and not before time either.

Offline wrex

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Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #269 on: April 04, 2016, 04:57:44 pm »
lets hope Mostyn estates have stolen the site,no sign of them starting the Tudno castle in March 2016,maybe they meant 2017