Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
4 (6.1%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
50 (75.8%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
8 (12.1%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (6.1%)

Total Members Voted: 66

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 380305 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Paulakelsall

  • Member
  • Posts: 48
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #180 on: November 29, 2012, 10:29:31 pm »
BlongB, does that mean that to develop the site as an entertainment attraction it would require a 'change of use' decree by the County Council planning dept for the entire site?
Whatever goes on the site would require a full Planning Application, whether it be a hotel, entertainment centre etc.

It means according to the latest Local Development Plan without Re-zoning the site can now only be used to build a Hotel

Is this because of abandoned use or else the site would have an existing use class?

Just for interest, I understand the pavilion site was looked at for a bowling alley with apartments above, prior to to it burning down and before the superbowl came to fruition on Mostyn Champneys.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #181 on: November 30, 2012, 10:12:55 am »
BlongB, does that mean that to develop the site as an entertainment attraction it would require a 'change of use' decree by the County Council planning dept for the entire site?
Whatever goes on the site would require a full Planning Application, whether it be a hotel, entertainment centre etc.

It means according to the latest Local Development Plan without Re-zoning the site can now only be used to build a Hotel

Is this because of abandoned use or else the site would have an existing use class?

Just for interest, I understand the pavilion site was looked at for a bowling alley with apartments above, prior to to it burning down and before the superbowl came to fruition on Mostyn Champneys.
I think I still have the press clippings for the bowling alley idea. I understand that would have involved the conversion of the Pavilion building, as I recall?

Going back to the original point, looking at this LDP document:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEoQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conwy.gov.uk%2Fupload%2Fpublic%2Fattachments%2F448%2FBP21_Site_Deliverability_Assessment.pdf&ei=N4a4UN-uO4T0sgatkYCAAQ&usg=AFQjCNEftUD-e1fieljNIypyrVVX_Fjz5g&sig2=uTZAdngRK_bg4Ksy4IWpeg
it says....

5.5 CR4 / MS11 - Pier Pavilion, Llandudno
5.5.1 The pier pavilion site on Llandudno promenade has been proposed for tourism
and/or leisure uses. Being on the promenade in a central location and within
the boundaries of the Llandudno Conservation Area, a sensitive design
approach would be required for any proposal. The Council supports the use of
this site for tourism/leisure uses and discussions are ongoing with the owners
with a view to developing in the early to medium Plan phases.


Offline Blongb

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 1077
  • I love living in Llandudno.
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #182 on: November 30, 2012, 07:23:57 pm »
Yes Dave I've read section 5.5 which states one thing, but does that conflict with the requirements of the Hotel Habitation Zoning
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline dingo20

  • Member
  • Posts: 76
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #183 on: May 24, 2013, 11:03:34 am »
Why don't they level out the site and stick an open air market on it while they decide what to do with it? We could do with a good fruit and veg stall

Offline Nemesis

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 6276
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #184 on: May 25, 2013, 04:58:48 pm »
What an excellent idea.
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #185 on: July 25, 2013, 10:32:45 am »
The Pavilion issue will next be discussed on the Thursday, 24 October 2013 by the Communities Overview
and Scrutiny Committee:

'To provide an update on the proposals for the Pier Pavilion Site following discussions with the Design Council for Wales.'

Something to look forward to, eh?  ;D

Offline wrex

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2520
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #186 on: July 25, 2013, 12:22:25 pm »
Dave are you sure it is 2013 and not 2014. L0L

Offline Blongb

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 1077
  • I love living in Llandudno.
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #187 on: July 25, 2013, 01:40:09 pm »
The Pavilion issue will next be discussed on the Thursday, 24 October 2013 by the Communities Overview
and Scrutiny Committee:

'To provide an update on the proposals for the Pier Pavilion Site following discussions with the Design Council for Wales.'

Something to look forward to, eh?  ;D


Please don’t hold your breath Dave; surely you understand how Welsh Politics work by now.

If you don’t want to make a controversial decision, form a committee to look at the problem.

Then they can run into a problem they don’t want to solve, so you have to form a subcommittee.

They will report back to the main committee with the need to bring in a firm of outside consultants, etc. etc.

It’s a game and it goes on for years, costs us the ratepayers a colossal amount of money and nothing gets done.

Or an I just an old sceptic?    :rage:
Quot homines tot sententiae: suus cuique mos.
(There are as many opinions as there are people: each has his own view.)

Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #188 on: July 26, 2013, 12:01:23 am »
Don't forget the feasibility studies, the steering groups and the liaison committees, all of which will require a rigorous auditing process, feedback sessions and process-mapping reviews at key stages.

I've been involved in all those crappy things, and many more.... in my past life.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8949
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #189 on: July 26, 2013, 06:41:23 am »
Quote
They will report back to the main committee with the need to bring in a firm of outside consultants, etc. etc.  It’s a game and it goes on for years, costs us the ratepayers a colossal amount of money and nothing gets done.
Or an I just an old sceptic?

No, I've seen that happen many times. Wonder if elected Mayors do things faster?
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Nemesis

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 6276
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #190 on: July 26, 2013, 08:22:35 am »
Don't forget the favorite one
"A Task and Finish Group"
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.

Offline Jonty Hammers

  • Member
  • Posts: 19
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #191 on: July 26, 2013, 11:12:37 am »
The glacial pace of examining these big issues can be frustrating. I wouldn't mind if it was a case of time being taken to cross the Ts and dot the Is etc, and making sure that everything was in order before things got started, but annoyingly that rarely seems to be the case.

Committees; sub-committees; task and finish groups; consultants; consultations; handling by legal and regulatory departments; referrals back up the chain; councils; cabinets; town councils etc. ought to ensure that if something takes years and years to sort out, then it really ought to be proper, full-on, sorted out. No hiccups. No delays.

In the instance of the Pier pavilion site, there's obviously some sort of legal wrangle of which we're not aware (or at least of which I'm not aware) regarding the land involved. Otherwise, they'd have served the chap who owned it with a compulsory purchase order a long while back, and then we wouldn't be in this mess. He seems to be holding off for a good asking price and won't do anything with the land until he gets said price and knows the ball's in his court, so he can afford to hold off. And consider the restrictions that would be placed on such a development given the fact it's in the conservation area.

Failing that, the council might simply not want to commit any cash into buying it. Again, for reasons unknown. Maybe there's some sort of sticking point which would mean they couldn't sell it on to a developer.

Then again, they spent a fair whack on Porth Eirias, and while I don't consider it to be the architectural monstrosity others deem it to be, it seems to make little sense to invest so much cash into a potential attraction, only to not have the larger part of the tenders sorted out by opening time. If they have the money to build such a large installation and then not have facilities inside to ensure that it's generating revenue, then they must have some money to spend on the pier pavilion.

I know Llandudno is never going back to that old heyday of the classic British seaside town with numerous attractions and venues for entertainment. And even if the old theater hadn't burnt down, we'd probably all be here urging people to do something with the building, rather than an empty patch of land. Times have changed and tastes have changed with them, and Llandudno's ethos as a tourist town will have to change too.

But it seems a shame to let a site as potentially useful as the Pier Pavilion place linger and fall victim to weeds and dilapidation. I mean, from the moment you come over Penrhyn Hill in to Llandudno, that end of the town is the most obvious draw to tourists (notwithstanding all the attractions of shopping in town nor the natural beauty and long sandy beaches of the West Shore, of course). The prom leads to it; the Great Orme overshadows it, and the pier is the slap-bang eyecatcher - it blends all the best things that the North Shore has to offer.

This is why people are infuriated with the speed it's taking and especially with the fact that we never seem to hear anything about it. Don't get me wrong - I love the forum and everything it has to offer, but we often have to rely on snatches of conversations with councillors, managers, officers, owners, legislators or similar "Big-Hitters"; and chaps like DaveR have to go digging. Or we all have to resort to speculation if anyone who even looks a bit like a developer, or someone with a hard hat, is seen stood around the site.

The thing is - this is important! Members of the public shouldn't have to go digging around with this. Nor should we have to rely on speculation. There should be reasonably frequent updates from the council or groups such as Mostyn Estates on what's going on.

Under such a system, if there were no updates, we would be able to pretty darn accurately presume that nothing's going on, and demand that someone else be brought in to take a look at it. A damned site better than the "wheels within wheels, legal wrangles, behind the scenes, cloak and dagger, ooh we can't quite move on it yet, we're in talks with the owner" stuff with which we currently have to deal.

If there's nothing that can be done with it, surely the council should come out and tell us as such? If they've exhausted all the options - fine! We would of course be disappointed, but we could then at least say "Hell, poor buggers tried their best - can't knock them for at least trying.", and then we'd be able to move on to something else, or have the authority focus its resources on another important project.

And what's even more infuriating is the fact that this could be said about practically any other one of the developments or eyesore sites around town.

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #192 on: July 26, 2013, 12:07:19 pm »
Great post, Jonty, I salute you!

Offline Tosh

  • Member
  • Posts: 281
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #193 on: July 26, 2013, 12:23:51 pm »
Well said Jonty, I couldn't have put it better myself.


Offline Merddin Emrys

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4426
Re: Llandudno's Biggest Eyesore....the Pier Pavilion site
« Reply #194 on: July 26, 2013, 12:55:20 pm »
Yes very good!
A pigeon is for life not just Christmas