Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site

[DaveR]

What might work there would be a virtual theme park. Essentially, the exterior façade cuold be identical to the Grand, making a nice architectural statement but the inside would house several floors of virtual rides and games. It would require a fair bit of investment, of course, but so would anything on that site.  The bonus is that the ground floor could be an ice rink.

Several companies have experimented with the concept, and the Walt Disney Company has made it work in Florida. I've visited two - and they're extremely immersive.

I think there's mileage in that idea. Llandudno desperately needs a large all-weather attraction. Another hotel is madness, when you consider how many are closing.

Personally, I think a combined amusement/catering concept like the U.S. Dave & Busters would work well. Could be called Dave & Festers maybe... 

http://www.daveandbusters.com/default.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_%26_Buster%27s

[Fester]

..Just tell me how much you need mate, I'll sign the cheque.

By the way, I have also been to the Disney Quest attraction in Florida, and I have long said that such a facility would be a massive success on the Pavilion site in Llandudno.

[Hugo]

I don't know why the CCBC can't play the owner of the site at his own game.  He was under insured and has let the site become an eyesore over many years so why should he profit from his neglect.
One Councillor suggested that it be compulsory purchased and just grassed over but people laughed at the idea.. why? 
The CCBC could compulsory purchase it for recreational purpose and create a small park there but in the fullness of time change the status of the land from recreational use to residential or business use.  They should be just as devious as the present owner if they want to make any progress in this case.

[Blongb]

The CCBC could compulsory purchase it for recreational purpose and create a small park there but in the fullness of time change the status of the land from recreational use to residential or business use.  They should be just as devious as the present owner if they want to make any progress in this case.

This is already well under way Hugo. In the latest Local Development Plan, the Pavilion Site was rezoned from an Amenities Site to an area of Hotel Habitation. This also prevents the Garden or Theme Park ideas from getting any form of Planning Consent.

[Hugo]

That doesn't make any sense to me Blongb, it's as if the CCBC are playing into the hands of the owner and making it easier for his company to develop the site.
He could have done that years ago if he really wanted to develop it so what has changed?
We all want an improvement on the site but not at any cost.

[Blongb]

When the Pavilion was first destroyed by a deliberate act of Arson the onus was on the owner to rebuild it. Instead he claimed he wasn't covered by Insurance for fire damage so could not meet the cost of rebuilding.

However that didn't stop him from almost immediately submitting plans for an Apartment Block to be built there instead. This of course was turned down flat by the Planners and CADW.  Even under the latest Local Development Plan this is still not possible because as I said earlier the site is now been included in the Hotel Habitation Zone which if my understanding is correct does not permit the building of Apartments

[Fester]

BlongB, does that mean that to develop the site as an entertainment attraction it would require a 'change of use' decree by the County Council planning dept for the entire site?

[DaveR]

BlongB, does that mean that to develop the site as an entertainment attraction it would require a 'change of use' decree by the County Council planning dept for the entire site?

Whatever goes on the site would require a full Planning Application, whether it be a hotel, entertainment centre etc.

[Blongb]

BlongB, does that mean that to develop the site as an entertainment attraction it would require a 'change of use' decree by the County Council planning dept for the entire site?

Whatever goes on the site would require a full Planning Application, whether it be a hotel, entertainment centre etc.

It means according to the latest Local Development Plan without Re-zoning the site can now only be used to build a Hotel

[DaveR]

No, not at all. You can submit a Planning Application for anything on that site.

[DaveR]

Good to see Cllr Cater taking a proactive stance on the issue. 

Hopes raised for future of Llandudno Pier Pavilion
Nov 29 2012

HOPES have been raised that a Victorian pavilion which has been derelict for 20 years could rise from the ashes of the fire which devastated it.

Llandudno’s Pier Pavilion is a blot on the landscape of the resort, and councillors and conservationists have been hoping for years that the owner, a Midlands based businessman, would come up with a viable scheme to redevelop it.
Last year he prepared plans for a hotel, but didn’t apply for planning permission after council officers advised it wasn’t in keeping with the Grade II listed pier.

But at a meeting last week councillors heard that if he couldn’t come up with a suitable proposition by the end of 2012, the council could look at drawing up its own plans and the possibility of seeking a compulsory purchase order.

Cllr Chris Cater said: “It is incredible that we have not had one single planning application for this derelict site since the fire.
“The county council has formulated a conservation and development brief to help the owner’s architect. We all know an inappropriate design could be something Llandudno would regret for a long time, so I support the conservation officer’s insistence on a high quality structure that would enhance North Shore and the conservation area.
“A compulsory purchase order must not be ruled out as a potential measure we could take.”

The site of the ornate building, which was a theatre and conference centre before the blaze in 1994, is now covered in undergrowth, and hoteliers whose properties overlook it say it ruins the view of the bay.

Conservationist John Lawson-Reay of the Llandudno Seaside Buildings Preservation Trust welcomed the news the county council was working with the owner to try to come to a suitable compromise.

“It is very good news that at last there seems to be some progress. I was recently at a meeting of the Llandudno Conservation Area Advisory Committee, where the council’s conservation officer told us the owner had come up with an idea for a hotel which didn’t satisfy the conservation area requirements.

“But the conservation officer is being very proactive in trying to get a resolution for the site and I got the impression the parties are very close to coming to some sort of an agreement.

“At last the council is taking a positive stance on a situation which has been stagnant for so many years. They haven’t mentioned the words ‘compulsory purchase order’ before and that is to be welcomed.

“Increasingly the land is becoming an unsightly eyesore and provided a project can be put together which is in keeping with the pier’s Grade II listing we would welcome its development.”

At last week’s meeting of the county’s overview and scrutiny committee, conservation officer Peter Jones-Hughes said it was believed the land owner was revising plans for the hotel scheme and would re-present them.

He explained compulsory purchase was an option which could be considered, but would be complicated and could leave the council with a big bill.

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2012/11/29/hopes-raised-for-future-of-llandudno-pier-pavilion-55243-32330394/

[Blongb]

No, not at all. You can submit a Planning Application for anything on that site.

You’re quite right Dave you can submit a planning application for anything on the site but it will get rejected out of hand at the preliminary stage of the planning application because it doesn’t meet the requirements of the L D P. That’s what happened to all the previous enquiries that were proposed when the site was zoned for utilitarian use

[DaveR]

If that was the case, the local Group that has been preparing plans for an Entertainment Centre would have been wasting their time, surely?

If a realistic plan is put forward for rebuilding of the Pavilion, there is no way it will be refused.

[Blongb]

The site of the ornate building, which was a theatre and conference centre before the blaze in 1994, is now covered in undergrowth, and hoteliers whose properties overlook it say it ruins the view of the bay.

At last week’s meeting of the county’s overview and scrutiny committee, conservation officer Peter Jones-Hughes said it was believed the land owner was revising plans for the hotel scheme and would re-present them.

He explained compulsory purchase was an option which could be considered, but would be complicated and could leave the council with a big bill.

I disagree: The only thing I’ve complained about is the rubbish the Pier and Grand Hotel has dumped in the site and the lack of maintenance of the fences and hedges. Without the Pavilion the View of the Bay is Fantastic

The last thing we need is another Hotel being built in Llandudno. At the last count there were over 60 Hotels / B & B’s or Guest Houses currently up for sale in a town that has at least half of all Welsh Bedstock

He’s got the compulsory purchase right it’s a minefield. 

[Blongb]

If that was the case, the local Group that has been preparing plans for an Entertainment Centre would have been wasting their time, surely?

If a realistic plan is put forward for rebuilding of the Pavilion, there is no way it will be refused.

Now it's been rezoned yes they can refuse it. Thats why I put in an objection to the change of use when it was proposed in the latest LDP