Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site

[Hugo]

The street Light at the top of Hugo's first picture has just been disconnected electrically, prior to its removal, along with the pay and display ticket machine so that Mr Waldron can circumvent his access problems. The only problem with that, is the site access will now be from the middle of North Parade, down an access ramp with a downward slope approaching 50°, with no room for the vehicle wheel washing provision required in the planning permission. The stupidity of attempting access in this manner prompted me to write to the HSE, who unfortunately failed to respond in the manner I would have expected. I do however have their responses on file and should the inevitable happen, I will be in a position to forward them on, hopefully not to the Coroner.

That access ramp is really weird Blongb  and the reply letter that you had is even weirder, surely there must be a few H & S issues there?

[Blongb]

The street Light at the top of Hugo's first picture has just been disconnected electrically, prior to its removal, along with the pay and display ticket machine so that Mr Waldron can circumvent his access problems. The only problem with that, is the site access will now be from the middle of North Parade, down an access ramp with a downward slope approaching 50°, with no room for the vehicle wheel washing provision required in the planning permission. The stupidity of attempting access in this manner prompted me to write to the HSE, who unfortunately failed to respond in the manner I would have expected. I do however have their responses on file and should the inevitable happen, I will be in a position to forward them on, hopefully not to the Coroner.

That access ramp is really weird Blongb  and the reply letter that you had is even weirder, surely there must be a few H & S issues there?

HEALTH AND SAFETY AT WORK ETC ACT 1974
WORKPLACE CONCERN

You recently contacted the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) with concerns about Pier Pavilion building site, Llandudno, LL30 2LP.

Thank you for your further concern form, received at HSE on 15.01.20, clarifying the nature of your concern. We have reviewed the information you provided and concluded that on this occasion we will not follow-up this matter. 

I gather that you are referring to potential risks relating to the stability of the temporary access ramp and any vehicles that may come to use it.

The HSE is required to make effective use of the resources available for the regulation of health and safety in relevant industries by targeting its interventions carefully, which it does with reference to criteria relating to legal standards and evidence of risk. It does not inspect the majority of construction projects as a matter of course, for example. The use of a temporary ramp formed from materials gathered on site is not in itself prohibited, though we would expect it to be sufficiently robust to support anticipated loads by the time it is put to use.

I would therefore ask you please to contact us once more via our Concerns form if you can confirm, for example, that the ramp is in use despite indications of potential structural failure that have not been remedied, particularly if you are able to provide evidence that might aid our assessment process.

Thank you for contacting HSE.

Please note this is a no reply email account and any reply will not be received by HSE.

Yours sincerely

Lee Jones

[OrmeMac]

Is it the council or Mostyn est assisting Waldro, no doubt that light will be dumped in builder street 😡.

It's the Council Norman, as Mostyn installed the Bollards. As for the street light it will be reinstalled as they are all listed within the so called "Conservation Area"

Isn’t it great how the council will ‘protect’ the historically important street lamp but don’t give a damn about the hellish block of flats right behind it.

[Hugo]

It's just a thought but the building was listed on 24th March 1969 but the black railings that surround the site do not appear to have been included in the listed objects
They were there well before 1969 and were guarding the entrance to Tucson Amusements which was directly under the Pier Pavilion.  It's a shame because the railings could have been another hurdle for Mr Waldron to face

[Hugo]

I've just had another after thought on the railings and apart from the fact that they may or may not be listed, who actually owns them?

Is it Waldron or is it the CCBC or another person.     If it is not Waldron then what right has he got to remove them without permission of the owner

If my memory is correct then after the Pier Pavilion fire the gate to the former Tucson Amusements was padlocked.  I am almost certain that on the gate was a notice part of which said " By order of Mostyn Estates"  so who actually owns the railings?

We know that Mostyn Estates does not own the freehold on the Pavilion site but does it own the railings or the last beneath the railings?

 

[OrmeMac]

I've just had another after thought on the railings and apart from the fact that they may or may not be listed, who actually owns them?

Is it Waldron or is it the CCBC or another person.     If it is not Waldron then what right has he got to remove them without permission of the owner

If my memory is correct then after the Pier Pavilion fire the gate to the former Tucson Amusements was padlocked.  I am almost certain that on the gate was a notice part of which said " By order of Mostyn Estates"  so who actually owns the railings?

We know that Mostyn Estates does not own the freehold on the Pavilion site but does it own the railings or the last beneath the railings?

 

Are the railings included in Waldron's plans?

[Meleri]

Hugo when CCBC gave planning permission for this development there were a number of Conditions that had to be met. Condition 3 is all about the iron colonnade columns, staircases etc.. There are quite a few hoops he is going to have to jump through as they are well protected. If you want a look in detail go on CCBC planning portal Application 0/43785. Click on '3210333 Revised Final Decision (web)' & Condition 3 can be viewed on page 3.

[OrmeMac]

I wonder if the railings were specifically included in the sale of the Pavilion by the then pier owners. If not then the current pier owner has more bollards to put up and cameras to install!

[Hugo]

That's certainly food for thought OrmeMac.   Some years ago Dave R very kindly sent me a copy of the deeds of the Pavilion and that may have the information about the railings, unfortunately my computer crashed last year and all the info on it was lost
I followed Meleri's advice on the CCBC planning portal Application 0/43785.  and there certainly are hurdles for Waldron to get over but I don't trust developers one bit.
It covers access, contamination and many more things and as far as I can see it appears that the first two have been affected already.
Let's hope that CCBC  keep an eye on the site, this time

[norman08]

Hugo when the pier co sold the pavilion to the company that also owned the cable cars Was it just the pavilion and Not the surrounding area 🤔, also having had dealings with the council/ Mostyn est ref that area they each deny ownership ( pass the buck) when they want, as you say lets see if Ccbc keep check on him, this could be similar to anwyl 😡, I've said all along about that place being flooded all the time you can't stop the tide coming in /out, that used to be our workshop and always flooded on big tides, how would he get round that.

[Hugo]

Norman,  if there is the slightest hint of any money changing hands then you'll soon have the owner coming forward and my money would be on Mostyn Estates who may be accused of having double standards.

Take for instance the Great Orme Goats who owns them?      I'm sure that many gardeners would like a bit of compo from the owner but no one is coming forward but take a Goat and you'll find out quick enough

Anyway back to the topic of the Pier Pavilion, that green pond that is there could that be contaminated?    Has anyone raised that question with the CCBC or the question about the rising tides?

[Meleri]

Hugo, Condition No 9 covered contamination on the site so there would have been a Contamination Risk Assessment. CCBC has discharged the condition so the site must be Ok, but I must say it looks pretty bad.

[Hugo]

Thanks for that info Meleri but I wouldn't like to have a swim in those slimy green waters I'll leave that to Mr Waldron     

[spotty dog]

The contamination of the site is a Natural Resources Wales issue and as such Waldren would have to satisfy them.speaking from experience they are not easy to satisfy and not cheap I don't know if the report is in the public domain?

[Meleri]

The report can be viewed on CCBC Planning Portal Application 0/46208, Document 3083931 dated 2/5/1019. There are several planning applications for this site & makes it very confusing. Also if you put Former Pier Pavilion Site, Llandudno in the search facility nothing comes up so you have to trawl through all the Llandudno Applications.It really is beyond me with all the technical jargon but from what I can make out there is Asbestos, Lead contamination & a possibility of Radon Gas.