Poll

What do you think should be the way forward for the Pier Pavilion site?

Modern design, as put forward by Mr Waldron, featuring restaurants, apartments etc
3 (5.4%)
Recreation of original Pier Pavilion design, but with leisure and entertainment facilities inside
42 (75%)
Larger version of original design, with leisure, entertainment and apartments included
7 (12.5%)
Leave site empty for another 20 years
4 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 56

Author Topic: Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site  (Read 166355 times)

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Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1020 on: May 25, 2018, 04:47:55 PM »
Meleri, that was very well put and you are obviously conversant with planning procedures unlike most of us.   I'm one of the those people that don't understand the procedure and would appreciate it if you could just clarify some things:-

a)  Are you referring to the meeting when the votes at the end were tied and the Chairperson cast her vote in favour of the application?

b)  If that is the case then Cllr Trefor Stott for instance, left the meeting before the end and presumably the vote had been held by then because he voted in favour of the application

c)  Are you saying that the CCBC planning meeting for the Pier Pavillion application was not on the same day as the Snowdonia meeting?
The date of the 7th March that I mentioned was just to highlight the fact that if the CCBC could be represented by two members then, then two people could be represented again if their attendance was required by a more important local issue like the Pier Pavillion

Meleri

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1021 on: May 25, 2018, 06:02:42 PM »
Hugo, I did look up the date and minutes of the SNP meeting after seeing what you had written and Councillor's Ivor Lloyd Betws yn Rhos and Phil Caper Llysfaen attended with apologise from Councillor Chris Hughes (who no longer holds that post it's now Councillor Wyn Ellis Jones, Llanrwst)) and the meeting was on the 7th March. What puzzled me was I knew Councillor Ivor Lloyd was at the CCBC Planning Meeting at Bodlondeb, when the Pier Pavilion site application was being discussed. I double checked the date for that meeting and it was March 14th. Councillor Phil could have very well been at another meeting on that day though.

Answers to your question:-
a) Yes.

b) No. The three Councillors did all vote on the Pier Pavilion site application, but left before all the other application had been heard that day and I feel strongly that they should have stayed until the whole meeting had finished at 5.30pm and debated and voted as such. How hard can it be to arrange that 12 times a year you attend the Planning Meetings if you are a Member of the Planning Committee, barring in mind of course, ill health.

c) Yes. As Above

Hugo

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1022 on: May 25, 2018, 10:17:00 PM »
Thanks very much Meleri, it is appreciated

TELL

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1023 on: May 30, 2018, 11:11:00 PM »
I do hope that we haven't scared Philfishlaw away already!

Meleri

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1024 on: May 31, 2018, 01:36:47 PM »
Oh Dear! my comments weren't meant to offend in any way  :( Councillor Phil you did ask for the "views of other people" so in all honesty I gave mine. The only SNP and CCBC Planning Committee meetings on the same day was 11th April and both you and Councillor Ifor were late arriving, about half way through, so I can see where you got muddled  :-\

philfishlaw

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1025 on: June 01, 2018, 10:42:38 PM »
Hi all , not scared away, just "away" for a few days. Yes its true that there are so many meetings that some times its hard to keep up. I may have been at the Community health council (of which I am chairman for Conwy)
With regard to how I would have voted had I been able to get to the meeting. When you receive instruction on planing you are told that you must not express an opinion until you have heard all the evidence. As I have not heard all the evidence I cannot say how I would have voted, however I would say that in my view and opinion the proposed development lacked architecturally merit and was aesthetically unappealing.

TELL

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1026 on: June 02, 2018, 08:58:10 AM »
It's good to hear from you Phil. It's also a relief to hear that you are sceptical of the current plans. The development being built in keeping with our beautiful town is very important to a lot of people, both local, and visitors. It does sometimes feel as if our elected representatives don't understand how a bad decision could detrimentally affect the Victorian charisma of Llandudno.



norman08

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1027 on: June 02, 2018, 10:07:54 AM »
I think Our councilors should get out more walk/ sit on the prom listen to what visitors say ,we as locals can take Our lovely town for granted sometimes but when you see families from the cities comming to sample what we have only yesterday I heard a few people come onto the prom and say about the curve in the bay how unspoilt etc , you chat to them and mention what is planned for the site and All of them gasp that would spoil the area , we all agree that something needs to be there but it has to fit in , I could Write a book about chatting to visitors ( school parties aswell ) , as we say councilors are Our mouth piece not as a lot of them think for themselves .

Fester

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1028 on: June 02, 2018, 01:30:56 PM »
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I think Our councilors should get out more walk/ sit on the prom listen to what visitors say ,we as locals can take Our lovely town for granted sometimes but when you see families from the cities comming to sample what we have only yesterday I heard a few people come onto the prom and say about the curve in the bay how unspoilt etc , you chat to them and mention what is planned for the site and All of them gasp that would spoil the area , we all agree that something needs to be there but it has to fit in , I could Write a book about chatting to visitors ( school parties aswell ) , as we say councilors are Our mouth piece not as a lot of them think for themselves .

You want to stop talking to school parties Norm, it can get you into all kinds of trouble these days.  ;D :D
Fester...
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Edith Perry

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1029 on: June 06, 2018, 07:06:56 PM »
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No doubt the saga will drag on for ages yet before the inevitable happens. At least you feel that the developer is keen to get things moving and the site developed rather than leaving an eyesore for many more years to come.

It appears that local issues have no importance when it comes to planning matters so it is giving the developers the green light to do whatever they want to do.
As for the eyesore aspect then once the building has been built we will be stuck with a more permanent eyesore.    I just hope that Adam Williams can afford to stick to his word about access.

Instead of a 2D 'eyesore' visible from only a few hundred metres in selected positions, we will have a 3D eyesore visible from 20 miles.

Sound logic there by whoever cooked that one up.

born2run

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1030 on: August 30, 2018, 10:13:48 AM »
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As I've said before, the problem is that there has never been another plan put forward for the site, even though developers have had 20+ years in order to acquire the site and submit plans...they chose not to do so.

Conwy Council, and its predecessor authority, have had 30+ years to acquire the Pavilion/site under a Compulsory Purchase Order...but chose not to do so.

The Pier Owner had the same ability to acquire the Pavilion site that Mr Waldron had...but chose not to do so.

Looking at it pragmatically, the proposed Pavilion development will generate £78k/year in additional Council Tax from the apartments (52 x £1500) and create 100 permanent jobs....the present hole in the ground generates nothing for the town.

I'd just like to point out a couple of issues I have with this thinking. The first is that just because the council neglected their duty, doesn't mean locals should suffer Costa Del Sol style holiday flats at the entrance to the pier. In this case many would argue that nothing is preferable to something, if that something is this Waldron development.

The second point I'd like to raise is that according to the Daily Post (I know), 75% of jobs in the leisure industry in Llandudno are filled by migrant workers. So you're painting a situation where we have the double whammy of extra burden on the narrow roads around the site and on services in Llandudno from the flats (the majority of which will invariably go to people from out of town), then add to that the influx of migrant workers who will need to move to the area, find houses, flats, doctors, schools etc; and add to that again the detrimental effect sticking a massive block of non-Victoria flats at the entrance to the pier will have on tourism, spoiling Llandudno's very proud Victorian seaside heritage.

You're proposing that for the sake of employing 25 locals (on low wages no doubt), Llandudno throws away its very soul and puts a massive burden on local resources. All for the sake of a bit of council tax!

Took a while... but absolute bollards! why are none of these 'migrant' workers having babies then?

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"Figures show that last year, 84 of the 1,016 births in the area were born to non-UK-born mothers, a rate of 8.3%.

This is considerably lower than the England and Wales average of 28.4%."

Anyone who thinks that Conwy has a 'problem' with foreign workers they are extremely deluded.

Ian

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1031 on: August 30, 2018, 10:41:41 AM »
I'd have thought the opposite was the case: Llandudno depends on Foreign workers.
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Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

born2run

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1032 on: August 30, 2018, 10:51:56 AM »
Absolutely, especially in our two local hospitals which is why Brexit is going to be for some an exit - literally  :'(

I was just responding to the 'burden' and 'influx of migrant workers' comments of the post I quoted.

DaveR

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1033 on: September 06, 2018, 09:12:06 AM »
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Absolutely, especially in our two local hospitals which is why Brexit is going to be for some an exit - literally  :'(
Should it have ever been the case that our hospitals have to depend upon foreign workers? Is it right that we are taking trained medical professionals away from their own countries where, in many cases, the standard of healthcare is far worse than in the UK?

Ian

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Re: Llandudno's Pier Pavilion redevelopment site
« Reply #1034 on: September 06, 2018, 09:14:47 AM »
That's probably why they come here...
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.