Author Topic: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay  (Read 323106 times)

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Fester

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1125 on: August 22, 2016, 07:07:41 PM »
'Troubleshooter'.  Sounds expensive to me.
Fester...
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Michael

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1126 on: August 22, 2016, 08:59:40 PM »
  Do I understand you correctly? Are you saying that Venue Cymru and Porth Eirias are making profits?

Ian

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1127 on: August 23, 2016, 07:49:18 AM »
VC certainly is.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Hugo

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1128 on: August 23, 2016, 10:39:25 AM »
Colwyn Bay this morning at 6.00 am and it's warm and sunny here now so I've got the chance to mow the grass  before it rains again.

SteveH

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1129 on: August 23, 2016, 11:08:53 AM »
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  Do I understand you correctly? Are you saying that Venue Cymru and Porth Eirias are making profits?
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VC certainly is.

I must admit to going by old information, and assuming  :-[ nothing had changed, and being surprised by Ian's comment.  (will do better)
I have had a quick look for up to date info, without results, Ian, can you point me in the right direction please.

Nemesis

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1130 on: August 23, 2016, 11:16:12 AM »
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VC certainly is.
wow! since when?
Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.

BMD

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1131 on: August 23, 2016, 12:38:11 PM »
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That phrase "council officers believe the complex is of economic benefit to the region" hides a multitude of sins.

Yes. The logic seems to change depending on the council's intentions. If they want to promote something costly (changes to the prom, Porth Eirias, etc) then they say it's "economically beneficial to the region" (in some vague, unquantifiable way). But if they want to get rid of something (eg the pier) they focus on the costs instead, and go quiet on all the unquantifiable ways in which it would "economically benefit" the area.

Most of these things that have wide public use (beyond some narrowly defined business purpose) are ultimately costly - but that's fair enough, precisely because they have wide public uses beyond a narrow business case. That's why we inevitably have things like government funding and EU grants (etc) paying for them. It's a pity the council spokespeople can't be straight on this point - or at least be more open with the accounting, instead of requiring FOI requests, as was the case with Porth Eirias. Do they think we're all disciples of Margaret Thatcher's ghost, or something? I mean, obviously we're concerned by huge public costs, but we don't need to be fed the line that all these things are (or need to be) profitable or "economically beneficial".



nwpo

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1132 on: August 23, 2016, 02:47:48 PM »
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VC certainly is.
wow! since when?

The latest annual accounts aren't out yet, but in 2014/15, Venue Cymru lost £1,710,000. Theatr Colwyn £18,000 and the Great Orme Tramway £181,000 - Total losses for the 3 main attractions (their words not mine) of £1.9 million!

SteveH

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1133 on: August 23, 2016, 03:10:29 PM »
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VC certainly is.
wow! since when?
The latest annual accounts aren't out yet, but in 2014/15, Venue Cymru lost £1,710,000. Theatr Colwyn £18,000 and the Great Orme Tramway £181,000 - Total losses for the 3 main attractions (their words not mine) of £1.9 million!

Thanks NWPO, that's the figures I was going by, I remember a heated discussion in the summer of 2014 on the "Venue Cymru thread"  regarding the losses at that time.

nwpo

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1134 on: August 23, 2016, 04:49:38 PM »
I don't know how they work out the "Economic Benefit" to an area (pull a figure out of the sky I think), but I do know the following from their report which shows contributions to overheads - profit/(loss):

Ospreys v Sale (April 2015) - £0
1940's weekend (April 2015) - (£32)
Round Table Dinner (April 2015) - (£35)
MMA (May 2015) - £2,456
Boxing, Netball, MMA (May 2015) - £895
Access All Eirias (June 2015) - £619

I would suggest that the contributions to overheads being so low would show a naivety in estimating. An event like AAE should return more than £619 to the coffers - or put another way just 3 pence per attendee!

Ian

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1135 on: August 23, 2016, 05:00:58 PM »
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VC certainly is.
wow! since when?

The latest annual accounts aren't out yet, but in 2014/15, Venue Cymru lost £1,710,000. Theatr Colwyn £18,000 and the Great Orme Tramway £181,000 - Total losses for the 3 main attractions (their words not mine) of £1.9 million!

Yes, they made a big loss 14/15.  But I can't remember where I saw it but there was a piece saying VC had not only broken even but made a profit this year.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Michael

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1136 on: August 23, 2016, 11:11:52 PM »
  I'm treading a bit carefully here because I could well sit alongside the representative of this attraction in meetings of which we are both members. But I feel I must write this.
  The tramway, and to me at any rate this hugh loss. I see the tramway every day, seven days a week, come rain and shine from around 9.30 in the morning to the last tram around 6 p.m. They are invariable full to overflowing virtually the whole day, including days with howling gales and downpour of rain.. Going past the stations, particularly the main entrance station, there is a queue of hundreds for most of the more popular days. I assume the trams run with the maximum possible journeys every day.
   On the minus side I suppose there are unexpected problems with the track, or vehicles, or in the power shed.
   But surely as an outside observer it does not seem difficult to predict in advance of every season how much it costs, how much it will take, throw in a bit for an emergency or two, and work out how much the fares have to be to make a profit. Or are they saying that it s so expensive to run that by charging the "correct" price no one would go on it. Or, no beating about the bush, are the administration costs so high that they need a radical overhaul.
   I'm not looking forward to the next meeting. I might be thrown out.   Mike

Michael

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1137 on: August 23, 2016, 11:14:37 PM »
   Just seen that the thread the tramway was mentioned is "everything to do with Colwyn Bay." Of course it has nothing directly to do with Colwyn Bay but any loss by Conwy council does have a concern to Colwyn Bay. Ian please move if you wish

Fester

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1138 on: August 24, 2016, 02:16:59 AM »
You are correct Mike, the Tramway just HAS to make a profit or something is very wrong.
Think about the Cable Car, which hardly ever runs, but presumably makes a profit of sorts, or it wouldn't continue, as it is a private enterprise.
Ian, I don't think VC turns a profit, the last figures I saw were yet another substantial annual loss despite cost cutting and extra funding being pumped in.
Fester...
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Ian

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Re: Everything to do with Colwyn Bay
« Reply #1139 on: August 24, 2016, 08:02:07 AM »
I'll do a bit of digging.  I remember being surprised when I saw the piece, but I'm sure I did see it.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.