Author Topic: Crime and criminals  (Read 233155 times)

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Offline Yorkie

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #765 on: September 24, 2014, 08:53:35 am »
In the Police Manual that I had in the Met the very first sentence was:

"The primary object of an efficient Police is the Prevention of Crime, and next, that of Detection and Punishment of Offenders when Crime is committed."

To my mind this sums it all up very nicely.   ZXZ
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero

Offline Ian

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #766 on: September 24, 2014, 09:04:53 am »
Peelian Principles

1. The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
2. The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.
3. Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.
4. The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.
5. Police seek and preserve public favour not by catering to public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.
6. Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.
7. Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
8. Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.
9. The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.


Offline Ian

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #767 on: September 24, 2014, 09:08:52 am »
Theresa May:

"Home Secretary Theresa May has said that the mission of the police is to cut crime, no more and no less. In a speech to the Police Superintendents’ Association she expanded on this theme, saying:
“Cutting crime isn’t just about the number of arrests which are made, the number
of incidents responded to or the number of successful prosecutions. In fact, I am quite clear that it does mean a range of activity [...]

“Let me be clear. Some domestic disputes are crime and all incidents of domestic violence are crime. Early intervention is crime fighting. Preventing crime is part of cutting crime.

“I think for too long, too many people have seen crime as a strict Home Office definition of recorded crime. When I talk about fighting crime, I do not mean a narrow category of activity.

Cutting crime means catching criminals but it also means preventing crime. And preventing crime means intervening early in domestic disputes to prevent escalation, it means supporting the vulnerable person who could become a victim of crime, it means tackling anti- social behaviour, it means providing effective public order policing.”"
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline SteveH

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #768 on: September 24, 2014, 11:29:57 am »
Quote
a PC could be stuck dealing with a "social" issue, I understand these are important, but is that what they are there for.

One detail is that the precise definition of 'social issue' has not been stated.  The reason I was concerned at the original post was the fairly strong sentiment that implied two things: the Police only exist to fight crime and, secondly, that the responsibility for everything other than crime should be borne by other agencies. The implication that 'other agencies' (interestingly, also not clearly defined) simply drop everything at 4pm on Friday evenings and pass it all over to the Police is, I suspect, misleading at best.

In our society crime, neediness and vulnerability go hand-in-hand, and often what is seen as crime can be something quite different. If the police refuse anything they deem 'not criminal' where does that leave the vulnerable, I wonder.
I agree with what you said above, and we do need more detail, but if they thought it important enough to make that statement, then it should be looked into.

"Many incidents I hear being passed over the airways should never be police responsibility but once we accept the incident the buck truly stops with us "

I think they feel blackmailed in some situations.
.

Offline Ian

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #769 on: September 24, 2014, 06:03:37 pm »
Quote
if they thought it important enough to make that statement, then it should be looked into.

But it's not the Police per se, but the Police's Union who are making that statement. And they don't have a good track record:

Quote

Personal attacks by the Police Federation on political figures such as Andrew Mitchell and Theresa May are condemned in an independent review which called for sweeping change at all levels of the troubled organisation.

The review into the federation, which represents more than 120,000 constables, sergeants and inspectors, was set up following the "plebgate" affair which culminated in Mr Mitchell's resignation from the Government.

The report painted a damning picture of "petty politics and squabbling" within the organisation, divisions between its headquarters and regions and between the ranks it represents. It also raised questions over the £64.5m the federation holds in reserves and said the cash should be used to cut members' subscriptions.
 
 

The review was scathing about some federation representatives' tactics in defending officers' terms and conditions which have seen it target Home Secretaries including Ms May and Tom Winsor, the Chief Inspector of Constabulary.

Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline SteveH

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #770 on: September 24, 2014, 06:30:24 pm »
Quote
But it's not the Police per se, but the Police's Union who are making that statement. And they don't have a good track record:
I see where you are coming from, but I still think the "street bobby" is under ever increasing pressures.


Offline Hugo

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #771 on: September 26, 2014, 09:19:10 pm »
Boat seized in Pwllheli after £100m cocaine haul

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29382333

Offline SteveH

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #772 on: October 02, 2014, 10:43:32 am »
Quote
a PC could be stuck dealing with a "social" issue, I understand these are important, but is that what they are there for.

One detail is that the precise definition of 'social issue' has not been stated.  The reason I was concerned at the original post was the fairly strong sentiment that implied two things: the Police only exist to fight crime and, secondly, that the responsibility for everything other than crime should be borne by other agencies. The implication that 'other agencies' (interestingly, also not clearly defined) simply drop everything at 4pm on Friday evenings and pass it all over to the Police is, I suspect, misleading at best.

In our society crime, neediness and vulnerability go hand-in-hand, and often what is seen as crime can be something quite different. If the police refuse anything they deem 'not criminal' where does that leave the vulnerable, I wonder.
I Watched "999 What's your emergency" last night, which made me think about, what we had been discussing above.

Based in a 999 call centre.... I noticed a lot of calls came in, that initially seemed time wasters, asking for non related emergency help, at first the operator, seemed annoyed, but carried on talking to them, I realized they were looking for signs of "self harm",  and the number of calls from people already known to them, that they knew, only  wanted  to talk to somebody....in the majority, the police were sent.
I said before, that the police felt as if they "were being blackmailed" over social issues, and I got the same impression, that the emergency operators felt the same.

"In our society crime, neediness and vulnerability go hand-in-hand, and often what is seen as crime can be something quite different. If the police refuse anything they deem 'not criminal' where does that leave the vulnerable, I wonder."

I wonder.....Do we need a fourth emergency service?....££££££



Offline Fester

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #773 on: October 05, 2014, 09:41:26 pm »
Whilst most right-thinking people believe that racism is ignorant, it made me laugh just HOW ignorant those who daubed this graffiti in Wrexham must be!   (I lifted the picture from a BBC News article)


Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Dwyforite

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #774 on: October 06, 2014, 01:35:19 am »
Mormons?

Offline SteveH

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #775 on: October 06, 2014, 09:47:25 am »
Took me awhile.... _))* _))*

Offline Ian

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #776 on: October 19, 2014, 07:47:38 am »
The news that internet trolls face a doubling of their sentences is welcome to many. It's just a pity the government - as usual - waited until some famous (and probably rich) people suffered from online abuse before acting. 

Trolls have been around since the early 1990s and the days of IRC, significantly before forum  software such as this existed. Oscar's blog is a good example of how people have suffered, yet the 'authorities' did nothing until an MP was attacked and took action. Much of the damage to people on Oscar's blog was caused by the contributors, rather than Oscar himself, but he will likely be held accountable, as the owner of a blog or forum is deemed to be the publisher, and thus liable.

Although Oscar's blog is now offline, it was hosted by Google and they don't delete blogs but simply store them, precisely because of issues that might arise for up to seven years afterwards. Every entry and IP address is stored, so action can be taken against people for years after something is closed.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline SteveH

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #777 on: October 19, 2014, 09:52:45 am »
Quote
The news that internet trolls face a doubling of their sentences is welcome to many. It's just a pity the government - as usual - waited until some famous (and probably rich) people suffered from online abuse before acting.

Do you think they will act?..... or just a few test cases for the "famous" , make a few examples....how far do you think they will take the Oscar case, or is that going to fade away?.

Offline Ian

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #778 on: October 19, 2014, 10:03:48 am »
I suspect once those who feel they've been 'wronged' smell compensation, at the very least, that will act as a powerful incentive.  I also suspect that getting revenge might prove almost as powerful. It's also now well established that it's the individual posters that the Police might come after - not simply the host.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #779 on: October 19, 2014, 10:11:39 am »

Although Oscar's blog is now offline, it was hosted by Google and they don't delete blogs but simply store them, precisely because of issues that might arise for up to seven years afterwards. Every entry and IP address is stored, so action can be taken against people for years after something is closed.

The same can also be said for Twitter accounts from such sites as tweettunnel.info where past tweets can be seen and also specialist sites such as one in Holland that, for example, stores all tweets that have been deleted by certain groups of individuals, such as MP's.
 ZXZ
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero