Crime and criminals

[DaveR]

Hugo is absolutely right. I've been led to believe that B2R likes to try and wind people up on the forum by adopting a  controversial viewpoint.

[Fester]

Whether Born to Run has firm convictions on the subject or not, (and knowing him, I believe that he does), I think it makes for very healthy and controversial debate.    The stuff that Forums are built on!

He often argues with me, and infuriates me.... but he never gets infuriated himself.  In fact a wry smile often accompanies his argument.... which is my fault for taking things too seriously.

I still think that there are more scumbags than ever before, and they come in all shapes, sizes, colours, social backgrounds and nationalities.

[born2run]

Well hello forum friends 

Not had a chance to check in since the weekend but glad I did, seems there is a few things I need to clear up.

First of all thanks to Fester for coming to my aid,  even despite me rubbishing his mad death league idea a few weeks back.
It's nice to know that despite us having (radically!) different opinions. He still has the sense and respect to at least consider mine. Thanks also for noting my even temper, having been a Trade Union rep for almost 5 years I can say that I have seen everything from furious tantrums,  deadly tense silences,  aggressive bullying tactics and most upsetting of all genuine tears of those who have, or may be about to lose their jobs, and through this I have always stayed calm and reasoned throughout. I do believe this has owed much to any success I've had.

Now on to my opinion! And it is my opinion and I promise you it is completely genuine.

First of all thank you Hugo for saying that my postings are eloquent, although in the same sentence you also say they are inane (and I thought it was me who was supposed to be the one contradicting himself? )
I really wouldn't waste my time and effort adopting a viewpoint I did not fully agree with just to amuse myself - in fact I couldn't think of anything more sad (except perhaps being a Rangers fan)

You also go on to say, Hugo, that "your own personal standard bar is way above those you propose to champion?"
I must ask you to elaborate on this, as it sounds to me (and I apologize if I'm wrong) That you are saying that people can 'only stick up for their own kind' So this would mean that middle and upper class people couldn't stand up for working class rights (As Tony Benn did admirably) or that Men cannot stand up for Woman's rights, and Whites for Black rights etc - However I'm sure you already know how silly that is so I won't patronize you by pointing out the obvious flaws in this view.

Lastly I would like to say that I very much enjoy this forum and especially the political debate had here - I make no apologies for that - I genuinely relish my views being challenged, and I'd like to thank Dave R and the other admins for including a politics page on here.  I see this to Politics a bit like the 'Wii Fit' is to the Gym - A fun place to practice. Anyone who has played any sport knows that in practice you take a few more risks and attempt shots you might not normally make - If I have done this here and it has led some people to believe that my views are not my own or that I'm out for a 'wind up' then that saddens me.

 So please feel free to call me inane, misguided, rabbel rousing, inconsistent, or anything else you wish but please do not call me insincere . 

Thanks 

[Ian]

Thanks for the appreciative comment regarding the forum, B2R. In fact, as Fester says, vigorous, informed and logical debate is what this place - or any forum - should be about. Inevitably, behaviour in the streets is bound to invoke passionate responses but I think that's the mark of a healthy forum.

[Hugo]

It was interesting reading about your time as a Trade Union rep and that explains why your postings are so well written and thought out.  Some people like debating and I can understand and respect that but it isn't for me.
I haven't suggested that anyone should only speak up for there class, that would be totally wrong and in a civilized society we should speak out when anyone irrespective of their standing behaves or acts in an unacceptable manner.
Your example of Viscount Anthony Neil Wedgewood Benn is a good one.  A man born into a privileged background who became a Labour MP and for many years vigorously defended the rights of the working class, although some may argue that he was one of the reasons why the Labour Party was thrown into the political wilderness for so long.
In Tony Benn's time there were three classes of people Upper, Middle and working class but the present generation has produced another class.   That is Scum Class, those parasites of society who are prepared to live off the backs of the working class people. Those people who don't want to work and behave in an offensive and anti social manner and continue to do so because they think that it is their human right to do so and that the majority of people cannot do anything to correct their behaviour.
I accept that you are genuine and although your postings are well written they can still be inane and that is not a contradiction in terms, it is just my opinion of what you have said.     
You rightly condemn the Bullingdon Modus Operandi for their loutish behaviour but yet you think that it is acceptable for people to behave in the manner described by DaveR when there are women and children passing by in the streets.  I find that contradictory and in fact slightly bizarre.
If that is acceptable to you that's fine and that's your opinion and we can agree to differ.
I did ask a question previously of you but do not appear to have had a response and will ask it again as I am interested in your response:-
Is it fair that anyone on benefits should get more money than the average working person will receive?       I would appreciate a Yes or No answer rather that a Politicians one where they tend to fudge the answer with a non committal one.       

[born2run]

Thanks for your responses Hugo & Ian

I am actually at work at so cannot write anything in depth (People who take advantage of those good enough to employ them by taking advantage is a massive bug bear of mine also)

But I will also Hugo's question quickly, I'm sorry I must have missed it before.

No it is not right that somebody on benfeits should earn more than the average working person, this is way the minimum wage must go up, Benefits can't be cut as despite what the press may have you beleive,  they are set at just enough to allow people to survive, not lead any kind of lavish lifestyle as you may think. It's a complicated issue though and hopefully we will ahve more time to talk about it more in the future

[Fester]

I agree with.............................. EVERYONE !

[Hugo]

I agree with BTR that no one should be better off on benefits and that the minimum wage should be reviewed more often.
I also think that total benefits should be capped at no more than £26K which is quite generous really.
£26K tax free for doing absolutely nothing isn't bad and I bet it's a lot more than most Union members receive for working full time.

[DaveR]

A MAN lost his temper during an argument and hurled a pan of boiling water over his partner.

Victim Helen Pritchard screamed in pain and pulled her top off as she ran out of the house to get help.

She was rushed to hospital and was treated with water spray and lotions and was in great pain for several weeks, Mold Crown Court heard.

Peter Edwards, 44, of Pant Glas, Johnstown near Wrexham, admitted inflicting grievous bodily harm – but escaped immediate custody.

Judge Niclas Parry told Edwards that the serious incident was the culmination of hours of drinking.

He said that the defendant’s earlier behaviour had amounted to bullying and intimidation.

“You abused her, you smashed her phone, you told her you hated her and then threw boiling water over her.

“The injuries you caused resulted in weeks of discomfort and pain and to a loss of wages,” said Judge Parry.

Edwards had a previous conviction for domestic violence upon the same victim.

Edwards received a 51-week prison sentence, suspended for two years, was placed on supervision, and sent on an integrated domestic violence course.

He was ordered to carry out 200 hours unpaid work, pay £1,000 compensation and £500 prosecution costs.

Judge Parry also made a restraining order under which he must not approach her for the next five years.

David Mainstone, prosecuting, said the couple had been together for ten years. She was a mother of three and the youngest child was that of the defendant.

Mark Connor, defending, said that his client was deeply and genuinely remorseful.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/10/02/wrexham-man-hurled-boiling-water-over-partner-55578-31945438/

[born2run]

Anybody watching the documentary ?

[Fester]

NO!

More importantly, where were you at Darts last night?.... when you were sorely needed!

[born2run]

Not well - hence why I still can't sleep at this ungodly hour 
Last night was the one I was looking forward to as well

[Fester]

The plaque outside Jimmy Savile's former residence in Scarborough has been vandalised, see below.

I suppose it was inevitable.

[Ian]

I've removed and hived off the remaining posts in this topic by Pentan.  I'm also instituting a ban Pentan as a consequence of infringement of forum regs and general attitude.

[Tosh]

I think pentan was the one on Oscar's a few weeks ago who was getting potty mouthed and ranting about Lewis Carroll.
Good riddance, thanks Ian.